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Road tax

#2
Just had the renewal notice drop through the letter box 85 bloody pounds . How the hell do they justify that!! :mad::mad:
It can not be justified Nick.
My old Tiger is tax free as an historic vehicle, why is that ??:confused:.

but then I pay £85 for the Sprint, and £85 for the Trophy, and £85 for new Tiger , so that's £255.
I can only ride one at a time!

My lovely wife pays £30 for her nasty little foreign car which happens to give the same mpg as my bikes! but takes up twice as much road space, and causes way more congestion, and she drives more miles than I ride......

The law must be "fair and reasonable" so I think next year I might just use Old Tigers number plate on all my bikes and pay no road tax.
If I get caught, I will refuse to pay the fine, and might end up with a couple of weeks free board and lodgings at HMP.



Seriously, I think I might join the MAG and start a campaign, or write to the Royal Princes and ask for support :).

night,night.
 

Big101

The cake is a lie
#3
The alternative to Vehicle Excise Duty is to back the tax off onto fuel. Those who do high miles pay more, those who do less miles pay less. Simples, happy days.

Unless you live in the sticks. It's a 12 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket for me, its further for you to go to Hexham and back, Barry, and my folks have a 26 mile round trip to Ponteland. This would mean a dramatic change in who pays the tax that is supposed to support upkeep of the roads, backing it off from those in cities who don't have to go far to get most things, to those in the sticks who do, and to long distance drivers. There are rich and poor in the cities and in the countryside, but I suspect that if I could be arsed to do the research, I'd find that there is more general wealth in cities than in the countryside, and even if there isn't, you're never far from a supermarket in a city. F**k the reps, if you're doing 50K miles / year, cough up.

The government is keen to be seen to be green. Nippy little Jap hatchbacks are seen to be Eco-friendly (in the same way that diseasels were 15 years ago) so the don't attract much tax. Drive a big 4x4 gas guzzler and you could be forking out £2K/year. Motorbikes aren't green. They have avoided a lot of the green emissions laws, but they are tightening up. IIRC, the 1050 T engine is being phased out because it won't meet the newest standards for emissions.

Perhaps the government could introduce a taxing scheme where there was an allowance of say, 12K miles where you pay a lower rate of tax on fuel, then hit the real high mileage gimps for doing so many miles, combined with a tax based on emissions, but thinking it through, it would be so complicated, expensive to manage and open to fraud that it probably isn't worth it...
 

Edders

Well-Known Member
#4
I agree with you Micky, put the tax on the fuel. I do around 35K a year but would happily pay extra on fuel if the roads were improved but that is a big IF. Taxes extracted from one source rarely fund that particular source and just go into the big spreadsheet. At one time in the distant past the tax on fags was said to fund the NHS several times over but people moaned that smokers were a drain on NHS resources so they put the tax up to discourage the filthy habit
 
#5
You whinging bunch of tight bastards. It's about £1.50 a week. For those of you who drink, have half a pint less PER WEEK. For those who live in the countryside, who's ways I allegedly don't understand, I can't see you begging to pay more insurance.

In fairness, it sounds fairer to put it on fuel. But as I do about 35k a year in my car as well, I don't care because I don't pay for it myself anyway. :p:p:p:p

I'll just get me coat.....

Merry Xmas
 

Big101

The cake is a lie
#6
I agree with you Micky, put the tax on the fuel. I do around 35K a year but would happily pay extra on fuel if the roads were improved but that is a big IF. Taxes extracted from one source rarely fund that particular source and just go into the big spreadsheet. At one time in the distant past the tax on fags was said to fund the NHS several times over but people moaned that smokers were a drain on NHS resources so they put the tax up to discourage the filthy habit
I suspect that if fuel duty were increased to compensate for VED, I would break even. 6K miles / year commuting, plus extra converting hydrocarbons to sound and kinetic energy for fun.

I didn't intend to present a case for getting rid of VED and banging the tax up on petrol, although it would kill many birds with one stone. I think I'd prefer something close to what we have now, a tax based on emissions and age, but graduated so that the older a vehicle is, the cheaper the tax gets rather than the current new car / in-between car / old car system. Drop VED a bit and increase fuel tax a bit, and I think you'll find a happy medium. The fat Tory landowners in their 4x4 palaces would pay a boat load of tax for having a big new shiny motor. The high mileage guys would get hit on the fuel tax. And those who drive or rider older sheds short distances wouldn't be out of pocket, and they're the ones who can least afford fuel and VED. A significant proportion of the energy a vehicle consumes is from its initial construction, not from the fuel. I need to fact check that brain fart, but I'm sure I read it somewhere. This means that keeping older and more polluting cars on the road is better for the environment than forcing people to buy new shiny efficient cars.

Thinking on.

The car companies want us to buy new cars. Advances in corrosion protection and mechanical reliability means that we rarely see the modern equivalent of rusted out old Cortinas broken down on the roadside. What makes us get rid of old cars now? My 18 year old Vectra passed its last MOT first time after no significant servicing. I wanted to see what it would fail on, and it didn't. :) It did get 8 advisories though... Now cars are more reliable and not rotting back into their constituent molecules, what is the driver for new car purchase? Fuel economy? Tax incentive? Buy-back schemes? I think the motor industry and the government have colluded to present a green argument for buying new cars instead of keeping old ones on the road to support a struggling car industry. The greenest thing to do (fact check pending) is to keep old cars on the road.

Maybe tax could be worked out on a total carbon footprint of the average life of the car? We know how much carbon goes into a car, and we know how much carbon each car emits as a result of its efficiency. Maybe a tax could be based on the age of a vehicle and the relative amount of carbon used in its construction, plus in increase in VED offset by a reduction in total VED collection? We can already tax cars on emissions, which is vehicle-based, so it is only an extra line or two in the Swansea database to add in carbon consumption making the thing. Under that system, those in flash new big cars that drink petrol and who do high miles would pay the most. Those who are keeping some rattly old shed on the road and who do few miles would pay the least. If you drive an old motor and live in the sticks, you pay the bulk of the tax through fuel duty. If you drive a swizzy little Jap hatchback to the shops and back in Tunbridge Wells, you pay the tax through VED. Etc.

Um...

Sorry, monologue over.
 

njr58

Well-Known Member
#9
You whinging bunch of tight bastards. It's about £1.50 a week. For those of you who drink, have half a pint less PER WEEK. For those who live in the countryside, who's ways I allegedly don't understand, I can't see you begging to pay more insurance.

In fairness, it sounds fairer to put it on fuel. But as I do about 35k a year in my car as well, I don't care because I don't pay for it myself anyway. :p:p:p:p

I'll just get me coat.....

Merry Xmas
Ya big girl's blouse, might have known you'd put yer 10 pen'arth in.:rolleyes: Mind you yet probably borrowed that of some poor sod.
Merry Christmas to you to Rod.:D